Noisy joints - why?

[nederlandse]

subject: I want to know the reason for the loud poping joints. Perhaps knowing that will get me one step closer to knowing what's wrong with me. Does anyone know about periodically cracking joints.

I have been experiencing strange symptoms for about 2 years now. Mainly my complaints are GI - digestion, low energy related but the rest of my body seems effected too: skin, energy, memory, apathy (makes sense i supose). Doctors / tests can't find anything wrong but one of the scariest symptoms that comes and goes is that all my joints crack and pop loudly when things are 'bad' - when they clear up, as they periodically do - my joints quiet down. When things are 'bad' everything hurts and i supose the cracking joints are acompanied by pain.

I want to know the reason for the loud poping joints. Perhaps knowing that will get me one step closer to knowing what's wrong with me.

[Unregistered]

Air - no joke asked two different Drs and they both said its a build up of air, and that when forcing your joints it pressures the air out!!!! sounds far to sensible really....

[Midge]

Raymond Brodeur in the Ergonomics Research Laboratory at Michigan State University responds:

To understand what happens when you "crack" your knuckles, or any other joint, first you need a little background about the nature of the joints of the body. The type of joints that you can most easily "pop" or "crack" are the diarthrodial joints. These are your most typical joints. They consist of two bones that contact each other at their cartilage surfaces; the cartilage surfaces are surrounded by a joint capsule. Inside the joint capsule is a lubricant, known as synovial fluid, which also serves as a source of nutrients for the cells that maintain the joint cartilage. In addition, the synovial fluid contains dissolved gases, including oxygen, nitrogen and carbon dioxide
The easiest joints to pop are the ones in your fingers (the interphalangeal and the metacarpophalangeal joints). As the joint capsule stretches, its expansion is limited by a number of factors. When small forces are applied to the joint, one factor that limits the motion is the volume of the joint. That volume is set by the amount of synovial fluid contained in the joint. The synovial fluid cannot expand unless the pressure inside the capsule drops to a point at which the dissolved gases can escape the solution; when the gases come out of solution, they increase the volume and hence the mobility of the joint.

The cracking or popping sound is thought to be caused by the gases rapidly coming out of solution, allowing the capsule to stretch a little further. The stretching of the joint is soon thereafter limited by the length of the capsule. If you take an x-ray of the joint after cracking, you can see a gas bubble inside the joint. This gas increases the joint volume by 15 to 20 percent; it consists mostly (about 80 percent) of carbon dioxide. The joint cannot be cracked again until the gases have dissolved back into the synovial fluid, which explains why you cannot crack the same knuckle repeatedly.

But how can releasing such a small quantity of gas cause so much noise? There is no good answer for this question. Researchers have estimated the energy levels of the sound by using accelerometers to measure the vibrations caused during joint popping. The amounts of energy involved are very small, on the order of 0.1 milli-joule per cubic millimeter. Studies have also shown that there are two sound peaks during knuckle cracking, but the causes of these peaks are unknown. It is likely that the first sound is related to the gas dissolving out of solution, whereas the second sound is caused by the capsule reaching its length limit.

A common, related question is, Does popping a joint cause any damage? There are actually few scientific data available on this topic. One study found no correlation between knuckle cracking and osteoarthritis in the finger joints. Another study, however, showed that repetitive knuckle cracking may affect the soft tissue surrounding the joint. Also, the habit tends to cause an increase in hand swelling and a decrease in the grip strength of the hand.

Another source of popping and cracking sounds is the tendons and ligaments near the joint. Tendons must cross at least one joint in order to cause motion. But when a joint moves, the tendon's position with respect to the joint is forced to change. It is not uncommon for a tendon to shift to a slightly different position, followed by a sudden snap as the tendon returns to its original location with respect to the joint. These noises are often heard in the knee and ankle joints when standing up from a seated position or when walking up or down the stairs.

However what it does not state there is if it hurts and not just a reaction tothe noise when you pop your joints then there is something wrong.

[anroop]

hi ...for ur reply..look i had the same symptoms ur describing.....i was diagnosed with a thyroid malfunction...aside for the cracking joints..all the other symptoms indicate a thyroid disorder..even i have cracking joints...i still dont know if its because of the thyroid disorder..was looking for reasons when i stumbled upon ur post...but we both have the same symptoms..all of them..might be usefull to get a thyroid test..:-)

[Unregistered]

hi ...for ur reply..look i had the same symptoms ur describing.....i was diagnosed with a thyroid malfunction...aside for the cracking joints..all the other symptoms indicate a thyroid disorder..even i have cracking joints...i still dont know if its because of the thyroid disorder..was looking for reasons when i stumbled upon ur post...but we both have the same symptoms..all of them..might be usefull to get a thyroid test..:-)

I was daignosed with Hashimotos Hypothyroidism and since taking Synthroid and getting acupuncture specific to thyroid I have noticed my knuckles need cracking more often. I don't know if there is a correlation but i am just beginning to research any connection.

[Wellthen]

Hey I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's too. I just looked up noisey joints because I have been popping my joints alot more lately. I think that it should be included in the symptoms for Hypothyroidism.

[Unregistered]

subject: I want to know the reason for the loud poping joints. Perhaps knowing that will get me one step closer to knowing what's wrong with me. Does anyone know about periodically cracking joints.

I have been experiencing strange symptoms for about 2 years now. Mainly my complaints are GI - digestion, low energy related but the rest of my body seems effected too: skin, energy, memory, apathy (makes sense i supose). Doctors / tests can't find anything wrong but one of the scariest symptoms that comes and goes is that all my joints crack and pop loudly when things are 'bad' - when they clear up, as they periodically do - my joints quiet down. When things are 'bad' everything hurts and i supose the cracking joints are acompanied by pain.

I want to know the reason for the loud poping joints. Perhaps knowing that will get me one step closer to knowing what's wrong with me.

I have had this all my life and NO doctor has ever been able to answer what is going on... I just live with it. I am having a "bad" spell right now. My muscles all ache and I am exhausted and all of my joints crack more than ever. I have to crack my elbows 10 times a day because my arms get stiff my back is seized up and cracks whenever I bend over, my neck cracks when I turn my head and my feet are stiffed and tired. I have absolutely no idea and I just get told that some people have noisy joints. But it isn't the same all the time... I go through definite "bad" spells where everything is much worse and when it is my joints are also worse...

If anyone has any tips that'd be great!!

[Angellore]

Hello, it's VERY nice to meet someone other than me that has had this all his life. I have been looking for an answer to this question for a very long time. Have you done something special before it gets worse? Maybe stressed? Did you change diet? Do you eat about the same things every day?

Do you have any other signs of histamine excess? I have had skin writing for as long as i can remember, which is a kind of hives, and also cracking joints for just as long. I also have had acne since i was a kid. I remember when i was little, i had to crack my back all the time cus it got stuck and hurted. As i got older the cracking moved to my ancles and wrists so thats where most of my cracking is today. I blame the backpack i used as a kid for the back cracking and the computer i am using today for the wrists cracking.

As i have found out, the cracking for me comes from eating foods that are high in histamine. Some people have problems breaking down histamine and a wrong gut flora can make things worse or even cause the problem. Histamine distributes fluid in our bodies so it makes sense that it makes us crack. Dehydration also increases histamine levels so make sure you drink plenty of water. Foods rich in histamine are yeast, fermented things, vinager, msg, mushrooms, many grains and also milk. I also react to fish that has been fed grains and to high levels of tomatoes, like pureed tomatoes, and also to seaweed.

A woman has written a book in my language about how her chrons inflammation disappears when she stops eating these foods. Her sister stopped eating these things too and her joints stopped cracking then.

I do believe that a bad intestinal flora can cause this problem, so i am incorporating wheat bran and home made yoghurt in my daily routine. Wheat and oat bran makes the good bifidobacteria grow. I'll let you know if the cracking lessens. I also have a friend with hashimoto's who once was on the wrong dose thyroid hormones. Her joints started cracking, but when she went on my diet, her joints stopped cracking. It seems to be a quite common side effect to have cracking joints on the wrong thyroid hormone dose. Everytime she ate the wrong things they started cracking again. Hashimoto's is linked to hyaluron which lubricates our joints and tendons. Maybe hyaluron is linked to histamine or maybe hashimoto's is linked to histamine in some other way, i don't know.

Stress makes bad bacteria grow and destroys our good flora.. were you breast fed as a kid? I wasn't and i think that can be why i have had this problem for so long. I didn't need a stressful situation to destroy my good flora, it just wasn't there to begin with.

For me, the cracking starts in one hour after eating the wrong things and it keeps cracking for 3 days if i stick to the diet. It seems to be different for different people.

DONT::: don't go on my diet! Or you can go on it for a while to try, but It just makes the body crack much more when you happen to eat the wrong things. I was in much more pain and my joints cracked much more when i was on the diet, since it reacts more to the bad things when i don't eat them all the time, and it is difficult not to eat anything wrong. Oh yeah i also react to everything that is antifungal, since it kills intestinal yeast, releasing more histamine.

DO::: Try to fix the intestinal flora. I really do believe that this can be the key. And make sure you drink enough water. Best of luck to you!

[JTrempe]

Hi,

I am a physical therapist. Crepitus or popping/cracking/snapping of joints is a common issue. The good news is that it is generally nothing to worry about. The noises you hear can be realted to tendons sliding over bone, irregularity of bony surfaces, or release of joint pressure. The only thing to be concerned about is if you have pain when the joint is making noise. I do not believe that your joint noises are directly related to your other symptoms. Just because both began at about the same time does not mean they are related.

Hope this helps.

~JTrempe PT, ATC
http://www.joint-pain-solutions.com

[Angellore]

Oh and by the way, i want to give you two words.. look up histaminosis and histadelia.