9 years of exstacy-induced ****

[Leo77]

I am at the end of my rope and, to be honest with you, life hardly seems worth living anymore. I am desperate, and do not know what to do. Posting on this forum seemed like one possibility, so here I am. If anyone reading this has any idea what is wrong with me, and what steps I could take to fix it, I would be very grateful.
I am 31 years old, and have been suffering for the last 9 years with what I assume is some sort of neurological damage, brought on as a result of exstacy use. I hesitate to say "MDMA use" because, really, anything could have been in any of the pills I had taken. With the exception of this exstacy, which I took fairly regularly for a period of about 3 months, I had never been a drug user. Pot a few times in highschool, this exstacy, and that's it.
Anyway, initially the symptoms of what I assume to be nerve damage were much worse than they are currently. These symptoms consisted of a continuous pressure in the back of the head, jaw clenching brought about by the afore-mentioned back of head pressure, dizziness, tinglings in extremities, and feeling like I was moving even when still. These feelings of movement were sometimes mild, but at other times it felt as it my body were being almost violently jerked up and down. Remember, my body itself was still during all of this. These were sensations.
Within two years the jerking sensations stopped, but all other symptoms remained, and have continued to remain right up until today. Some days are worse than others. Just about an hour ago, a horrible fit of dizziness swept over me, for instance.
I should note that I've always been an extremely anxious person, and obviously this hasn't helped matters. I mention this because it's always possible that some of the sensations or whatnot are due to stress and not the exstacy damage per se. But really, I have no idea.
Shortly after these symptoms began, I did go to the doctor and got an MRI. Everything was fine. A few years later, I went back to the same doctor to report that these sensations were continuing. He wrote me out a prescription for an anti-anxiety medication. I never got the meds, as I figure since they seem to work in the same fashion that exstacy works, such meds might actually cause further damage to me. That is not a gamble I am willing to take.

Anyway, does anyone here have any idea what might be causing these symptoms: jaw clenching, continual pressure in the back of the head (kind of at the point where head and neck meet), dizziness, tingling in extremities, sensations of movement when the body is still.
By "what might be causing these symptoms", I mean what sort of damage?
Please help me.

[neurotransmissing]

Hi there ... sorry to hear of your suffering. I am very ... "more than" familiar with what you are experiencing and what you feel ... along with the 'why's and wherefore's' of how this came to pass.

What you describe is, sadly, many times what one endures consequentially. Especially if other substances are in the mix, namely alcohol ... and also even OTC (over-the-counter/other) meds mixed ... when/if conditions are "just right" for complications to take place.

Frequently ... people in recovery and those recovered from considerable substance use/abuse over long periods of time have similar problems. Also, additional problems as well (depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, etc.) are found quite often amongst those in the substance recovery communities. In addition, there are many cases of sexual problems reported as well (premature ejaculation, inability to ejaculate, inability to achieve and/or maintain an erection, loss of libido, etc.); also, urinary problems in some cases ... incontinence and/or leaking of urine, weakened bladder control. Sounds like you got out of it in time and avoided a lot of this.

Based on my personal experiences, being close and involved with those in recovery, and bearing witness to so much ... I suspect you may have some anxiety due to your past over-indulgence; it sounds like it was very long-term as well, with a substance being so toxic ... in addition to the other possible toxins/substance(s) you may have ingested as well. Considering ... it sounds like you have come out of it quite lucky and God has really blessed you ... being that in your case, it could be much worse based on what I've seen.

It does sound as though you have some nervous system damage, although it does not show on MRI ... perhaps because this is an "overall" problem with your nerves themselves, and many inconsistencies given the wear and tear on your body as a whole ... and without any particular "target" that has been damaged.

You do not mention how long it has been since you stopped using, etc. ... but that is also a huge factor. In many cases, what you describe is temporary ... but in others, not so temporary. You also say that you have always been of an anxious personality type; that does have a bearing as well.

Obviously, you are not treated effectively ... given your opening statement: "I am at the end of my rope and, to be honest with you, life hardly seems worth living anymore. I am desperate, and do not know what to do." I detect a lot of anxiety there, along with major depression. Again, I reassure you ... what you are experiencing is quite common. Please do not feel as though you are alone ... or that others cannot relate, your situation is not ... at all, unique ... although I assure you, I know it feels that way; remember ... feelings are not facts. There are hosts of others going through the same, and most all succeed and overcome it all with time if they persevere.

I'd like to address your statement here: "I never got the meds, as I figure since they seem to work in the same fashion that exstacy works, such might actually cause further damage to me. That is not a gamble I am willing to take." Although you feel strongly about this, at least temporarily ... meds may be the only way to help you overcome what you are experiencing. This can change, the meds eventually becoming unnecessary ... and for some, it does; for others, they may need meds lifelong to function and experience life as it is intended ... happily and symptom-free ... with productivity and fulfillment. Medications are just one tool in re-gaining one's footing as they pertain to situations such as yours.

Most-importantly, I would like for you to bear in mind this one fact; if you do, in fact, suffer from major depression and/or anxiety ... you probably need medications. Why? Because typically, it is a physical-body chemical imbalance that causes these conditions ... so in essence ... you cannot "will this away" or "think it away" or similar. It is, again, physical; nor will it go away without help and "prompting" to get it going in the "right direction" so that, physically, your body will again be able to balance out these chemicals independently. Not without help, it's too far advanced ... now being a physical/chemical problem within your brain/body ... rendering medications necessary, again ... perhaps only temporarily, bear that in mind.

One thing I know that has a bearing on your feelings, as you state, is the nature of your recovery and how you came to be abstinent ... do you have support, or did you initially? Again, how long have you been abstinent? Did you just put it all down independently? These are key to your ongoing, long-lasting, recovery and abstinence ... most-importantly bearing on your long-term quality of life. Please advise.

You are in my prayers. Hang in there!

P.S. If what you are experiencing is a physical/brain/body chemical imbalance, it will not subside without treatment ... and will most probably get much worse over time; ultimately, you will need meds if this is the case in your particular situation at present ... and I do suspect it is. By going on as you are, also ... bear in mind ... is MUCH harder on your body than any treatment to overcome this would be, I assure you! Stress kills ... anxiety/depression included ... as stress on the emotions = stress on the body, all-inclusively!

[Leo77]

Thank you for your long and thoughtful reply! To answer your question: I took the exstacy fairly often for a period of 3 months. This was 9 years ago. I stopped almost immediately after the symptoms mentioned in my first post began, and have not done anything of the kind since.

[neurotransmissing]

Hi Leo,

Okay, I am understanding that you have been abstinent for nine years then?

I am also understanding that you took the ectasy for three months, correct? How much and how often? (Unfortunately, it doesn't take much.)

Also, I'm understanding that prior to those three months when you used ectasy, you had none of these symptoms prior and were in perfect health; am I understanding correctly?

[Leo77]

Exactly. "Yes" on all counts. Though in terms of health, as mentioned in the first post, I've always been anxious and 'high strung'.
In terms of how much and how often, I would say probably close to once a week, perhaps two pills each time. Except for the last week or so (which is probably what damaged me), when I believe I took close to 10 in one night.

[neurotransmissing]

Thanks for answering so promptly. Here is what I suggest, my personal opinion, only ... of course.

I suggest that you go for a complete physical examination and tell all of this to your GP/PCP (regular doctor).

Secondly, I suggest you try ... at the very least ... a low dose of an anti-anxiety-targeted medication and see how you feel and function then. If you like, and are comfortable in doing so, you may personally email me at neurotransmiss@yahoo.com; I will share some experiences with meds found to be most helpful; then these will be a bit "narrowed down" so you don't have to go through the "circle-circle" of trial and error that happens often ... due to physicians, meaning well, but being unfamiliar with substance abuse and the ramifications necessary to provide scripts most effectively in such cases. I also have a personal story relative to what you are going through that you may find to be of interest.

I am especially interested in the nature of your lifestyle at present, as well; I'm not suggesting you need treatment or similar ... as you have been abstinent for nine years now. However, there are some key things that prove helpful if you are still struggling (those emotional difficulties and feelings ... in/of which the physical "phenomena" prove to play on and cause you even more distress).

As far as seeking further medical attention ... I would first give the above-mentioned some time and take it piecemeal after that. One thing at a time, one day at a time. However, I feel it important that you keep your emotions in check; I too, have an anxious type-A personality. Although I did/do not suffer to the extent you do ... I've had my bout and recovered myself after a short stint, such as yours. However, mine followed a series of "off-again, on again" binges. Although the "experts" do not feel I am an addict or similar ... I did get treated and am, at present, most definitely a "potential addict/alcoholic" if I were to "provoke" similar again, no doubt! My entire family tree is riddled with substance abuse, and sadly, only two of us with the problem are ... or have remained ... clean/sober. I have removed myself and live away and apart from them/any/all similar, I had no choice; although I do and will always love them. We cannot help anyone that chooses not to help oneself ... and sometimes it becomes necessary to walk away ... as I did, left with no other option for my own self care.

[Harmonium]

Anyway, does anyone here have any idea what might be causing these symptoms: jaw clenching, continual pressure in the back of the head (kind of at the point where head and neck meet), dizziness, tingling in extremities, sensations of movement when the body is still.
By "what might be causing these symptoms", I mean what sort of damage?
Please help me.

Your problems sound to me like they are indeed induced by your anxiety rather than any drug you took 9 years ago.

On-going problems from MDMA use to not present in the symptoms you describe.

Jaw clenching is a sign of TMJD-- usually a result of anxiety.

The pain at the base of your skull could possibly be a tension headache-- that is where your occipital muscles get tight. Or, your trapezius muscle (which attaches there) could be tight and pulling, causing the pain. Again, anxiety.

Dizziness: anxiety.

Tingling in your extremities, including sciatica, is normally because your muscles are too tight and entrap the underlying nerves. In your hands that would either be your pec minor muscle or your scalenes. As for the sciatica, assuming you do not have any bulging discs in your spine, the piriformis muscle clamps down on your sciatic nerve causing the numbness and tingling. Muscle tightness of this sort is usually due to improper posture, sitting for long periods and anxiety, as well as not sleeping properly to allow your muscles to 'reset'.

All of your symptoms seem to stem from your anxiety so you need to get a handle on that. It is not true that all anti-anxiety meds use the same neuroreceptors as MDMA-- you need to talk to your prescribing physician about that. However, it is possible to cure anxiety without the use of meds. I like cognitive behavioral therapy-- it did the trick for me, no meds.

If all this is really bad enough for you to think life is no longer worth living-- you need a reality check. Many people live with much more problems/pain/life-ending diseases with a much more productive state of mind. Please seek counseling as you can get better from all of this and your life is worth more that you seem to think it is. At least half of all pain is caused by your thoughts and emotions surrounding it.

For the muscular issues (most of your physical problems seem to fit with too tight muscles, hypertrophy), a well trained massage therapist with extra training in both myofascial release and neuromuscular therapy should be able to help you relieve the pain, med free. Just check credentials, all are not the same.

[neurotransmissing]

Leo, just so there's no confusion here ... your original post, "9 years of exstacy-induced ****," is absolutely possible and happens often.

Here are just a few links that explain the potential long-term effects, and you will find all of your concerns addressed within these ... as I just did.

http://www.nida.nih.gov/infofacts/ecstasy.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_MDMA_on_the_human_body

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA

http://www.mdma.net/

Just reiterating, your problems began nine years ago (you recognized the connection, and stopped immediately; no problems prior) and symptoms (likely, resulting from damage ... as you suspect) continue to present ... again, you are on the right track in suspecting the ectasy ... as these links further explain. There is no question about the fact that you are suffering with anxiety ... to my knowledge, nobody doubts that nor did they ever; however, you will find that information as well, a "trigger" that appears very apparent in your case ... the ectasy you took nine years ago; upon which time you recognized the anxiety.

As for cognitive therapy ... sure, a bit later. For now ... it appears quite apparent that, at this point in your suffering, in-depth cognitive therapy is a bit premature until you regain a bit of footing. Hence, I suggest small steps ... lest you get into something feeling as though you cannot follow through, further aggravating your situation. First things first, take small steps.

In addition ... cognitive therapy, alone, does not cure depression or anxiety once it has progressed to a certain point ... again, a physical-body-chemical imbalance; at nine years, I strongly suspect you need the aid of meds ... at least a low dose on a temporary basis. As time passes, the answers will show themselves.

Again, please refer to the links above ... and there are countless others you will find throughout cyberworld that address and explain. The links pertaining to each and every detail brought up in this thread so far, so you will have clear and accurate information.


Best of luck to you!

[Harmonium]

I'm sorry to contradict you neurotransmitting, but I disagree with your assessment and I think Leo77 deserves more than one opinion.

Yes, it is possible from long-term excessive use of the drug Exstacy that serotenergic changes can occur to the seratonin receptors. However, Leo77 is not showing classic signs of that, he is showing classic signs of anxiety and depression. Which, btw, he states were present (though not to this degree) PRIOR TO consuming the offending drug (which, btw, we have no idea how pure it was, it is possible it wasn't even MDMA with all the cutting done to these types of drugs).

While the short-term adverse effects and contraindications of MDMA are fairly well known, there is significant debate within the scientific and medical communities possible regarding long-term physical and psychological effects of MDMA. Short-term physical health risks of MDMA consumption include hyperthermia,[56][57] and hyponatremia.[58] Continuous activity without sufficient rest or rehydration may cause body temperature to rise to dangerous levels, and loss of fluid via excessive perspiration puts the body at further risk as the stimulatory and euphoric qualities of the drug may render the user oblivious to their energy expenditure for quite some time. Diuretics such as alcohol may exacerbate these risks further.
MDMA causes a reduction in the concentration of serotonin transporters (SERTs) in the brain. The rate at which the brain recovers from serotonergic changes is unclear. A number of studies [59] have demonstrated lasting serotonergic changes occurring due to MDMA exposure. Other studies[60][61] have suggested that the brain may recover from serotonergic damage; however, damage caused by heavy, prolonged use of MDMA may be long lasting

Three months of taking one pill at a time, then a culmination of 10 pills at once on one occasional, does not constitute heavy, prolonged use.

As for the meds that Leo77 doesn't want to take.....they are just a stop-gap, a way to fix the problem short-term.And if it is true what you propose that the MDMA permanently messed up Leo77's serotonergic receptors, any anti-anxiety med would not be able to work due to the uptake receptors being damaged, permanently. Personally, I subscribe to the belief that our brains are highly neuroplastic.....meaning that they can 'fix' themselves, rewiring for just this sort of issue. For any long-term relief of anxiety or depression, CBT is the method of choice.

I absolutely disagree that CBT is not called for here. CBT does not throw you in over your head-- it works with your immediate problems at the particular patients own pace. It is not too much. In fact, it saved my life. It does begin with small steps! If Leo77 is at his wit's end, thinking life is not worth living, I find it entirely irresponsible to suggest that meds alone will help him. He needs therapy!

'Physical-body-chemical imbalances' are not 'cured' with meds alone. In fact, I never took any meds for my chemical imbalances and I have been 'cured' all the same. There are other, less invasive, ways to change your neurotransmitters. Taking a bath or eating, for instance, ups your seratonin and your GABA. Going for a run or other physical exertion ups your dopamine. It's all about training your mind and body to shut off the 'fight-or-flight' sympathetic response, calling into play the body's balance for such with the parasympathetic response-- all part of the body's autonomic nervous system. Meds are not the only answer and in some cases, the wrong answer.

I have used exstacy and LSD far more than Leo77 has stated he did. My anxiety and depressive issues did not begin until many years later. My doctors (including my neurologist) think that my prior drug use had absolutely nothing to do with my current problems at that time. Of course, they also believe in the theory of brain plasticity (many scientists do!).

Leo77, really, it doesn't matter if the MDMA caused your issues or not-- you cannot go back in time and change the fact that you took them. Regardless of the cause, the treatment of choice for your anxiety and depression (which I believe from experience is causing the muscular issues) is still the same--Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. You can start slowly with CBT, I did. I also believe you would benefit greatly from a Massage Therapist trained in myofascial release and neuromuscular techniques. Meds are not your only choice!

[neurotransmissing]

I'm sorry to contradict you neurotransmitting, but I disagree with your assessment and I think Leo77 deserves more than one opinion.

Yes, it is possible from long-term excessive use of the drug Exstacy that serotenergic changes can occur to the seratonin receptors. However, Leo77 is not showing classic signs of that, he is showing classic signs of anxiety and depression. Which, btw, he states were present (though not to this degree) PRIOR TO consuming the offending drug (which, btw, we have no idea how pure it was, it is possible it wasn't even MDMA with all the cutting done to these types of drugs).

Three months of taking one pill at a time, then a culmination of 10 pills at once on one occasional, does not constitute heavy, prolonged use.

As for the meds that Leo77 doesn't want to take.....they are just a stop-gap, a way to fix the problem short-term.And if it is true what you propose that the MDMA permanently messed up Leo77's serotonergic receptors, any anti-anxiety med would not be able to work due to the uptake receptors being damaged, permanently. Personally, I subscribe to the belief that our brains are highly neuroplastic.....meaning that they can 'fix' themselves, rewiring for just this sort of issue. For any long-term relief of anxiety or depression, CBT is the method of choice.

I absolutely disagree that CBT is not called for here. CBT does not throw you in over your head-- it works with your immediate problems at the particular patients own pace. It is not too much. In fact, it saved my life. It does begin with small steps! If Leo77 is at his wit's end, thinking life is not worth living, I find it entirely irresponsible to suggest that meds alone will help him. He needs therapy!

'Physical-body-chemical imbalances' are not 'cured' with meds alone. In fact, I never took any meds for my chemical imbalances and I have been 'cured' all the same. There are other, less invasive, ways to change your neurotransmitters. Taking a bath or eating, for instance, ups your seratonin and your GABA. Going for a run or other physical exertion ups your dopamine. It's all about training your mind and body to shut off the 'fight-or-flight' sympathetic response, calling into play the body's balance for such with the parasympathetic response-- all part of the body's autonomic nervous system. Meds are not the only answer and in some cases, the wrong answer.

I have used exstacy and LSD far more than Leo77 has stated he did. My anxiety and depressive issues did not begin until many years later. My doctors (including my neurologist) think that my prior drug use had absolutely nothing to do with my current problems at that time. Of course, they also believe in the theory of brain plasticity (many scientists do!).

Leo77, really, it doesn't matter if the MDMA caused your issues or not-- you cannot go back in time and change the fact that you took them. Regardless of the cause, the treatment of choice for your anxiety and depression (which I believe from experience is causing the muscular issues) is still the same--Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. You can start slowly with CBT, I did. I also believe you would benefit greatly from a Massage Therapist trained in myofascial release and neuromuscular techniques. Meds are not your only choice!

Harmonium,

You most certainly are also entitled to your opinion ... and I'm sorry you took my post to imply otherwise. It appears that you have misunderstood the content ... and the context ... of my posts. To clarify, at no point and time did I direct Leo77 to only, or exclusively, turn to the use of prescription medications as the sole option here. Simply ... when one starts, best to start at the beginning.

These are all tools, what you posted ... as well as what I posted. Not only am I well-studied in cognitive therapy, but also in a full spectrum of psychological and psychiatric healing techniques and therapies ... also, pertaining to substance abuse ... overall and very extensively; not only personally, but also professionally. Hence, I've seen countless cases ... and actively participated in many recoveries (and the failures too, by those that choose not to recover) ... in those cases, exactly of the nature of which Leo77, himself, based his original post. For further and detailed information about my experience, I additionally offer Leo77 my email address ... for which my personal/professional life, occupations, experiences, and similar don't belong here on a public board.


I'm not here for a debate and I'm sorry that you appear to feel animosity toward my posts. I agree that we disagree, and for me ... (cognitively speaking) it's that simple!

Thanks for sharing your opinion. No hard feelings, okay?! None here.